WIP'S PROFILE

author=Hexatona
Honestly, the real differences between Slack and IRC are negligible.

Slack has real usernames and requires some slight hurdle to start, persistent messages, a better handling for certain media, and multiple rooms

IRC is basically anonymous, non-persistent messages, accessible from a variety of vectors, and one-room.

I guess the real question to ask is - why does RMN have a chat in the first place? Why are we using it? Is it just a faster general shoot-the-shit forum? A place to get help? Is it where people can talk to collaborate on game projects?

It's a bit of all three. I guess I just feel, if you're not going to use RMN's forums and private messages, IRC fills the first two roles better, and the third slightly poorer than Slack.

Most of all I just feel like it's unfortunate to have both at the same time since it just splits up the chatbase.

This is more the discussion I believe should be had. I was talking to some folks in IRC last night about it.

Mainly, what role does anything (forum, Slack, IRC) serve? If all these things live in different pockets, it's hard to see them being cohesive. Slack and forums are asynchronous and persistent (if you pay for it with Slack). If you like the persistency of Slack, do you feel the same about forums? Is it an interface issue at that point?

If real-time chat is supposed to be for entirely ad-hoc communication, I think IRC is the better approach foundation. It doesn't require authentication or registration. A web-based IRC client can join the RMN IRC in mere seconds.

But that doesn't seem to be how people want it. People like being known. I think that, even if registration isn't required for IRC, it's recommended and silly to not use.

author=KingArthur
Though if we ever elect to run multiple IRC channels, it might be easier logistically for RMN to just host its own IRC server rather than using SynIRC.

There would be some other benefits involved with this as well. Such as shared registration.

author=Yellow Magic

author=WIP
If there was a way to tie real-time chat together with RMN's existing user database, you'd get immediate and powerful benefits.

Urge to develop custom chat app rising...

Wouldn't be crazy. As I stated earlier in the thread, I wrote out a Node prototype piggybacking off IRC quite easily. That's the same realm as what Twitch did/does. You use IRC as the tech to handle the actual chat implementation.

author=Liberty
Easier and faster for me to have Slack load up automatically on start-up. No mess, no fuss. It just logs me straight in and I don't have to remember anything at all. :shrug:

Just about every IRC client can do all of that. -_-

author=BadLuck
So, reading the arguments against Slack, all I'm getting is "authorization sucks" (and that's an absolutely huge hurdle) and "it does more than is needed" which is... I mean, unless there's some huge cost to that that I'm not seeing, like it's a memory hog or something, that is just not a valid issue. If Slack does more than IRC with no noticeable cost, then Slack is better, period. And that's not even taking into consideration the vastly superior client.

Do Slack's "unfit" features actually cause a problem that I haven't seen explicitly stated here? If not, this is a non-issue.

Now, addressing the "authorization" issue... that's a big one. While it takes a matter of minutes to register, those few minutes plus the need to download a client are likely the reason so few people use it.

Is there not some way to automate this process? Can a bot not automatically verify the people signing up, and then immediately link you to slack's browser client, and the admins trim the fat afterwards? It's not like you're going to see an influx of hundreds of people by doing this.

If that's not possible, I could make an argument in favor of IRC...

The way it's done on RMN is absolutely archaic. There is no good reason why first-time IRC users should have to download a client. If you'd like to use a client, by all means do so. But being expected to download and set up a client in order to chat with people is going to be far too much time and effort for someone with a spur of the moment thought that, hey, chatting might be cool. "Oh, I have to download a client? Eh, forget it then."

The response to that can't be "Well, if that's too much time/work, fuck you then." Because that's the argument against Slack's authorization too.

Why we're not using this...

https://kiwiirc.com/

... or something like it is beyond me. I've used this for RMN IRC before. Incidentally, I stopped idling there because the community was beyond dead.

https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.snoonet.org/reddit/?nick=YourNickHere

You click the link, you put in your name, you're in chat in a matter of seconds. Is kiwi a perfect client? No. But it'll get people in the community, and that's the goal. Ideally, what I just described is what should happen with Slack with an automated authorization process. If that's not possible, IRC is clearly better, but for only that reason.

My proposal: Change the "chat on IRC" link to either Kiwi or something like it, where you need only to enter your username, encourage those currently idling there to talk, and then make a big event to get people to come to the chatroom.

FIND SOME WAY TO AUTOMATE THIS FOR SLACK IF POSSIBLE AND ABANDON IRC ENTIRELY. If that can't be automated, Slack can never be the main way for RMN users to chat.

I don't think it's a feature thing of Slack vs. IRC. There's IRC stuff available that works almost just like Slack does.

The things you described are what I meant earlier by "friction". Both have a very specific process you have to follow or they won't work. Having Slack be on auto-invite seems a hell of a lot more dangerous, just due to the way Slack expects users to operate.

As someone mentioned earlier, though, IRC is not "the new hotness" and has stagnated for a decade. I don't see Slack and IRC as equivalents, but there has been a lot of money put into Slack that IRC has never dreamed of. You will naturally get a more polished product out of that.

The site needs embedded chat. Full stop.

author=CashmereCat

author=KingArthur
Nothing about this is intuitive. The excuse that we aren't actually, really programming doesn't fly anymore. If you can develop software you should have no problems understanding and using a CLI.

Dude most people on this site don't know wtf a CLI is.

Edit: And here's the answer - I use Slack because I like it a whole lot more than IRC. IRC is boring. Slack is cool and quick and I like the way everything is presented. Everything is a lot quicker and easier to maintain. We have about 10 channels running alongside each other, it notifies you when new posts are made, it notifies when people ping you, it does all this without you having to tell it to do that to you. Basically... it automates tasks that we want to do, better than IRC does. Which is what software is made to do - make cool stuff easier to do.

I think WIP underestimates how much we use all the functions of Slack. We have integrated with another app for our #workingon channel. We're using group chats for our group game jams, sharing files easily across the server, and built-in pastebin type functionality. Embedded images and videos make accessing these things more streamlined. I'm sounding like a fricking Slack advertisement but honestly the new wave of our community is built on collaboration, so why not use a collaboration tool?

Those are pretty legit uses of Slack! I've never doubted its ability to help corroborate. To continue that into my previous question (and pulling in LockeZ's statement): does that belong in Slack? Is the site not pulling its weight in ways that it could/should? The site loses its cohesiveness by having different pockets unbeknownst to others.

author=Ratty524

author=WIP
I am quite entertained the argument boils down purely to "Slack is pretty".

Pretty and highly accessible compared to the ugliness of IRC. :)

I still don't buy the argument that Slack is "more accessible" than IRC. btw plz fill out the slack invitation form randos thx

author=Yellow Magic

author=WIP
I am quite entertained the argument boils down purely to "Slack is pretty".

Well yeah. Don't know where you've been this century but UX/UI are like 99% of what makes any app worth using

Your hyperbole is noted, but I also wasn't disagreeing. I am just not surprised this community would take a tool unfit for their end goal and wrangle it to the point of acceptance. It is the RPG Maker way.