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[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
author=oddRABBIT
Eh, Psy, Milk, and AE all feel like scum to me. Let's just tie the three, and then leave it all up to Piano to do a coinflip or something.
I'm still not sold that LockeZ is definitely town either, but fine. Sadly I'm on board with this.
Also Cave should actually use his kill item too. The more non-Odd kills the better our chances.
But I also want to hear Jeroen tell us more first.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
Holy guac that's a big thing to be ninja'ed by.
Jeroen: So Psy posted about Odd after you pointed it out? That's...certainly interesting, isn't it?
Jeroen: So Psy posted about Odd after you pointed it out? That's...certainly interesting, isn't it?
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
OK, well this is unfortunate.
First, I'm curious why everyone is sure LockeZ is town. I ha thought everyone said his style was usually to be extremely aggressive? He's been anything but that this game, and his reasoning hasn't always been very good.
I did finally read all of LockeZ's and Cave's posts, and...
#lynch Psy
I read LockeZ's observations and Cave's reply. Cave brought up some good points, but there are still some things that seems suspicious to me.
Why would you want to know the agent codenames? What would that do for someone who is town? I think that LockeZ is right about this, and it was an attempt to find out if there is a gray agent.
Cap_H pointed out that Psy jumped on Odd for saying that it was too much of a coincidence that Odd would offhand say what the spy/agent names were themed on. Jeroen and I then agreed that was a pretty big coincidence.
But I mean...was it? Was it really that big of a stretch? It seems like Psy has a lot of interest in what the spy names are. That's something town should want to be kept hidden as much as possible.
It also seems extremely strange to me that Psy kept talking about how suspicious the use of the term "gray agent" was, when the three people to use it first were me, Demon, and then himself. He seemed to think that saying "Oh, I just used the same term Demon did when responding to him" cleared him. But that's bizarre, why wouldn't the same logic apply to Demon? I feel like he just flat out didn't remember he had replied this way to Demon, or even hadn't really internalized that Demon was scum, and then had to explain himself. That would also be consistent with a very late demon reveal in scumchat, or no reveal at all because Demon figured that the hammer was inevitable.
Also the battle tuba hasn't come back up. That doesn't mean Psy was definitely lying, but it does mean he can't really be confirmed town, either. If it was single-use, then it would have been a risky but plausible scum play. Even if it targeted scum the other scum could have claimed to use it, and no one could counterclaim. My point is just that using the saxophone doesn't really mean he must be town, since we haven't had someone else claim to have it next and confirm its effect.
He's also kind of gone low-profile when Cave and I started fighting, other than to defend himself against LockeZ's post. That doesn't feel great.
First, I'm curious why everyone is sure LockeZ is town. I ha thought everyone said his style was usually to be extremely aggressive? He's been anything but that this game, and his reasoning hasn't always been very good.
I did finally read all of LockeZ's and Cave's posts, and...
#lynch Psy
I read LockeZ's observations and Cave's reply. Cave brought up some good points, but there are still some things that seems suspicious to me.
author=psy_wombats
Okay nevermind I read the thread anyway - Ozzy what does your item/power/etc do? and what's it called? And what are the agent codenames?
Why would you want to know the agent codenames? What would that do for someone who is town? I think that LockeZ is right about this, and it was an attempt to find out if there is a gray agent.
Cap_H pointed out that Psy jumped on Odd for saying that it was too much of a coincidence that Odd would offhand say what the spy/agent names were themed on. Jeroen and I then agreed that was a pretty big coincidence.
But I mean...was it? Was it really that big of a stretch? It seems like Psy has a lot of interest in what the spy names are. That's something town should want to be kept hidden as much as possible.
It also seems extremely strange to me that Psy kept talking about how suspicious the use of the term "gray agent" was, when the three people to use it first were me, Demon, and then himself. He seemed to think that saying "Oh, I just used the same term Demon did when responding to him" cleared him. But that's bizarre, why wouldn't the same logic apply to Demon? I feel like he just flat out didn't remember he had replied this way to Demon, or even hadn't really internalized that Demon was scum, and then had to explain himself. That would also be consistent with a very late demon reveal in scumchat, or no reveal at all because Demon figured that the hammer was inevitable.
Also the battle tuba hasn't come back up. That doesn't mean Psy was definitely lying, but it does mean he can't really be confirmed town, either. If it was single-use, then it would have been a risky but plausible scum play. Even if it targeted scum the other scum could have claimed to use it, and no one could counterclaim. My point is just that using the saxophone doesn't really mean he must be town, since we haven't had someone else claim to have it next and confirm its effect.
He's also kind of gone low-profile when Cave and I started fighting, other than to defend himself against LockeZ's post. That doesn't feel great.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
I will try to read and digest LockeZ's and Cave's posts about Psy tonight if I can.
Bullshit? I poked at you because you weren't making a lot of sense, you refused to answer my questions, and made many statements and accusations with brazenly little explanation. I gave lots of examples. You keep saying things like "You didn't answer my points", I ask which points since I thought I did, and then you say "it's not going anywhere, nevermind". That feels like you're not really trying to find the truth, just to make someone look bad.
You also said "the infamous lylo D1", but no one said that. Jeroen, Psy, and I all noted that this is, in fact, probably a lylo+mylo situation right now. Either we find the last true scum, or tonight Odd gets NK'ed, and the gray agent wins with the scum.
The only argument I see against that is that there is no gray agent, but you clearly aren't saying that you think that's the case.
If it's tunnel vision to pursue whoever I think is acting the most deceptive and suspicious, then sure I guess. You weren't the only person who had said I might be scum on me D1 in any case. But it very much feels like you are intentionally choosing not to understand what I am saying, or are choosing to interpret misunderstanding as deception.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
case summary: post history is mostly fluff, reads given are for shaky or, in the case of demonlord/ozzy, just like, wrong reasons, and she's developed tunnelvision on me, the only person who's really expressed much interest in voting her, for some, if you read above, reasons that either have no bearing on alignment or are flat-out wrong. reads to me like flailing scum who is more concerned with self-preservation than exterminating bad guys.
Bullshit? I poked at you because you weren't making a lot of sense, you refused to answer my questions, and made many statements and accusations with brazenly little explanation. I gave lots of examples. You keep saying things like "You didn't answer my points", I ask which points since I thought I did, and then you say "it's not going anywhere, nevermind". That feels like you're not really trying to find the truth, just to make someone look bad.
You also said "the infamous lylo D1", but no one said that. Jeroen, Psy, and I all noted that this is, in fact, probably a lylo+mylo situation right now. Either we find the last true scum, or tonight Odd gets NK'ed, and the gray agent wins with the scum.
The only argument I see against that is that there is no gray agent, but you clearly aren't saying that you think that's the case.
If it's tunnel vision to pursue whoever I think is acting the most deceptive and suspicious, then sure I guess. You weren't the only person who had said I might be scum on me D1 in any case. But it very much feels like you are intentionally choosing not to understand what I am saying, or are choosing to interpret misunderstanding as deception.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
Also most of my figuring out how things work has been to understand why someone would say something, and whether that would make it suspicious to me or not.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
Cave: To be clear, I am learning towards voting for you because repeatedly you haven't seemed to like to clarify things you've said, or explain your reasoning. If you want scumreads, that reads scum to me.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
author=psy_wombats
I don't think scum-Cave would kill demon.
Were you there for the time that scum-cave dueled his partner immediately?
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
also, there's a lot of mechanics BS and talking about gray agents or whatever instead of scumhunting.
Obviously you're right, it is no use figuring out if we are lylo or not, or trying to figure out what different roles would do in different scenarios.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
this vote doesn't mean much since plurality meant demonlord was going to die anyway. moreover, the reason for voting is bad. demonlord didn't have every single mechanic memorized....
So? How is that inherently scummy? Why would a scum demonlord be more likely to forget a rule than a town demonlord? That's just an indictment of "Well, demonlord made a mistake." It's like voting someone for making a typo or something.
A scum demonlord would be more likely to lie about forgetting a rule, or lie about something to make an argument.
And demonlord was wrong about more than he was in the previous games. And he was scum. And I voted for him. I actually was tepidly for lynching him because he seemed "off" compared with previous games, and that must be scum. So therefor I am definitely scum? I noted he was getting the rules wrong (on purpose or not) more than he did in previous games, and that seemed odd given how he had played before. We can't even be sure if my reasoning was right or not, and I noted how my reasoning was not a smoking gun.
I would think that at best that should mean my vote for him was neutral.
OK, so an example of not following up:
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
this reply doesn't really address what I said. maybe I need a translator.
What didn't my response address? I answered all the points other than how I wasn't obsessed with mechanics. Would you like me to tell you why I'm not obsessed with mechanics?
I kept asking what it was you wanted me to talk about, and you never explained.
Some examples (not in order) of never explaining some deductions you had that I would surely agree are brilliant, if I ever learned what they were:
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889608#post889608
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACKauthor=demonlord5000scum. someone else make the case for me. nap time.
I wouldn't normally do this but I'm going to sleep soon and I probably won't be back before the day ends. He's suspicious enough to warrant a vote at least.
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889500#post889500
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
that's wrong for several reasons I won't get into. bye.
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889560#post889560
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
I just realized something terrible about this setup
And finally an example of BOTH AT ONCE:
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
I didn't follow up on it because it wasn't evolving into anything and the archfiend demonlord made his presence known to me.
I'll have more to say about this later, when i am not asleep, but the specifics of the saxophone don't make sense to me. there are several possible explanations. that i will go into l. later. hunrgy.
That's what I'm talking about.
Also you can rest assured that I have even more brilliant things to say but my left ear is itchy therefor I won't tell you what they are.
that last sentence was a joke
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
author=Jeroen_Sol
Assuming Odd is telling the truth and the last agent is gray, then only 1 scum should be left. So while mislynching today could make us lose, lynching correctly today could make us win the game.
Yes, exactly this.
author=psy_wombats
The term "gray agent" would be important because it would be a term only known to non vanilla players. In the comics, the character is the gray spy, vs gray agent.
Or it's a thing I (in no special chats at all) said that then got repeated. I'll ask again, if someone repeating that who was scum is suspicious, then why did you use it too?
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACKauthor=AlaskanEmilyactively hunting for who the agents are, huh.
Also based on what Odd said happened in agent chat, Milk isn't the other agent.
Or knowing who is guaranteed not to be an agent means we won't accidentally lynch an agent.
I'm this close to wanting to lynch Cave now. He's been making statements and then outright refusing to follow up on them, and keeps saying "I have this excellent explanation of why this is a genius play which the margins of this chat are too narrow to contain". To be fair the only other game I played with him his style was erratic at best, but this doesn't feel like he's really trying to solve things, more trying to find ways start trains on random people.
[mafia] Spy vs. Mafia II Day 3
LockeZ: I think that's true. Either odd is gray, is fakeclaiming in a very strange way, has an incredible item/ability play in mind which I can't really imagine right now, or we are about to lose.
We will lynch him if it gets too bad (arguably it is). Milk needs to read the topic and then say something useful. Not posting is not helpful if you are town, and generally a pretty basic scum play.
Also based on what Odd said happened in agent chat, Milk isn't the other agent.
author=LockeZ
TremendousMilk isn't actually playing this game, and literally posted twice as much during the pre-game banter as he/she has posted so far during the game. That isn't okay. If the milk has gone scummy and we lose because of it I'll actually be upset.
We will lynch him if it gets too bad (arguably it is). Milk needs to read the topic and then say something useful. Not posting is not helpful if you are town, and generally a pretty basic scum play.
Also based on what Odd said happened in agent chat, Milk isn't the other agent.
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