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Map Design Fun #9: BQ2 --- gamepage is up! DOWNLOAD NOW!

Count me in on this one. I can easily afford time for a map this weekend.

RPG Intros

author=WIP link=topic=3684.msg74004#msg74004 date=1241790478
No.

FF8's intro goes against your point. It is 3 minutes long. It's bizarrely random but edited quite well and then shows something relevant with Squall getting owned. Then you get about a minute worth of dialogue and you name your character. Then a little more dialogue and you can move your character.

That is the sort of intro people were saying works. You probably just didn't understand what they were talking about.

Granted, I probably did misunderstand what the other posters were talking about, but I still stand firm on my point. An introduction that is three minutes long, five minutes long, etc, is fine so long as it is presented in a coherent and well written fashion.

author=Karsuman link=topic=3684.msg74002#msg74002 date=1241790017
Players don't know what they want. It's up to developers to make those decisions for them.

At this point, Karsu, I'm going to stop replying to you on this thread. My reason is that philosophically, I disagree with this statement completely. Any more debate between us will be purely argumentative, which can be fun as hell when bored, but will ultimately deviate this thread away from the point NoblemanNick started, something we're all trying like the dickens to avoid here.

author=Jakester link=topic=3684.msg74003#msg74003 date=1241790176
Especially when you are in need of a save point.

I don't mind too long of intros or cutscenes until I die and realize there was no way to save it so I don't have to watch it twice. Only exception of this rule to me is FFX. Still love.

Agreed. If you're going to have a long intro or long cutscenes, offer save points, or save prompts. Medal Gear Solid is generally good about that. Xenosaga was not, and I consider that to be one of the game's glowing faults. FFX wasn't good about it either.

author=Yoshio link=topic=3684.msg74005#msg74005 date=1241790511
you have to be pretty damn confident in your ability to interest a player if you are going to make intros or cutscenes that are longer than 5 minutes

Well, some of us are that confident. And some professional developers are not just confident in that ability, but they routinely back it up. Nothing wrong with believing you are the shiz-nitz and then proving it, Yoshio.


Anyway, to everyone else, there is an alternative that I haven't seen discussed yet. A lot of games with cutscenes, RPG's especially, give you the option to skip the cutscene. What do you all think about that? Would you, as a player (not as an indie developer), be more forgiving to a game with long cutscenes if it had a function to skip said cutscenes?

RPG Intros

Again, acceptable by whose standards? Yours? Mine? Prince Charles of England's? There is no standard, Karsu-san. If it's your opinion that they do go past that point of acceptable, then those games are not for you.

Some people absolutely love those two games for that very same reason.

So, yeah, like my previous post. What do type of game do you want? That'll determine the acceptable length of the intro and cutscenes.

RPG Intros

-puts aside stack o' work for a moment-

I have to say that I disagree with what the majority has said here so far. I feel that under the right context, and with the proper writing and cinematic techniques, an intro that lasts five, six, or even more minutes, is worthwhile. ((says the nutbag who's own game has a retardly long intro...that you can now skip)).

It's all about presentation, which is something that independent (that's us) and commercial (that's the guys at We-Make-Games, Inc) game developers have still failed to due on an average. If you can present something that is interesting enough, player will sit and watch it, even if it turns into the equivalent of a small movie.

Source: KOS-MOS's chest

However, length and detail are not necessary if the content is really good, and really well presented. Final Fantasy VIII's musical intro is, by far, one of the best Playstation RPG intros I've ever seen. It was powerful, dramatic, and emotionally stirring, even if you ended up hating the game later. Even now, after all these years, if you ahve played FF8, you haven't forgotten the game's introduction.

Another example of a game with an incredible introduction is Eternal Sonata. Granted, the scenes shown in the introduction make absolutely no sense until you reach the end of the game (read: ending sequence), but following that foreshadow-heavy montage is an opening monologue describing the starting village. So superb is the use of the English language in this introduction, and so beautiful are the visuals, that it pulls you into it's language-heavy world before you even start controlling the character.

Both games have roughly five minute introductions (although I believe that Eternal Sonata is a bit longer). Both games rely heavily on the presentation and the content of the introduction to keep the players attention. And neither is, in my opinion, too long. They do exactly what the game developers set out to do, draw you into the world with an introduction that is appropriate to the type of RPG you'll be playing.

Now back to Xenosaga, and KOS-MOS's chest...

Because you know that is why you played the game...

Games like Xenosaga have extremely long introductions, extremely long cutscenes, and ridiculously long endings. But these games don't try to hide that. In fact, the games specifically sell themselves as movie-like experiences, and therefore set the expectation, before you get the game out of the box, for very long dramatic sequences that tell the story. The Metal Gear Solid series is very similar, using cutscene sequences which can upwards of 30 minutes long (unless you are playing MGS4, then add yourself a zero at the end that number).

So if an adventure game like Metal Gear Solid can have very long intros, and it's not even an RPG, then why not an RPG? Is not the very purpose of the RPG genre to be more story-intensive than any other genre? Then would not logic dictate that an RPG should, by it's very nature, have a more detailed introductory cinema than any other genre. I mean, can you imagine a First Person Shooter having that level of cinemati---

Oh.

TL;DR Version: Guys, RPGs can have long introductions if the person writing the dialogue and designing the introduction uses it to set the tone for the rest of the game. While this may be very hard to do with RPGMaker games, it still can be done. All it takes is being able to use the medium in question to capture the audience's attention. And in RPGMaker, that medium is the written word. So go practice writing.

Redd's Event Workshop

Alright, Redd, here is a list for you:

  • Even though I will reference a few graphics in this list, they don't need to be provided. Just the functionality. I can provide the graphics myself.
  • The term 'character' will refer to anything in the battle, ally or enemy.
  • Character action is determined by their speed statistic, so characters with a high speed will take more turns.
  • Battles are not fought in real-time, but are instead fought in turns, with the order and frequency of turns determined ahead of time by, as stated, the speed stat/
  • There is no gap between turns. When one turn ends, another begins.
  • A graphic stating the word 'Next' floats above, to the side, or underneath whatever character is next. An arrow should accompany this graphic. My thought is that the a battler could be used, therefore it can be animated, and the correct graphic, and therefore the correct direction of arrow, would be dependent on the position of the character going next.
  • When it is that ally or enemy's turn, a short graphic would be displayed ad their feet. I call this the 'burst graphic'.
  • When it is a character's turn, they enter 'Tactical Time', which can be from 0 to infinite. In Tactical Time, so long as they don't move or take an action, the character can determine what it wants to do. This is mainly for the players, not the AI-controlled monsters. The moment a character moves or acts, they go from 'Tactical Time' to 'Action Time'.
  • Action Time is the time a character has to perform an action, which can be from 1 to infinite (although, to be honest, I can't see any good designer giving more than 6 seconds of Action Time). There needs to be a switch the designer can set, or allow the player to set, that will activate a 'beginner mode' and freeze Action Time if the character stops moving or acting.
  • A character can move in 2 /12 space, in an area defined by the designer, on the battle map. Zooming and panning of the background image should be supportable to create larger than normal battle areas, if possible. Movement speed should be adjustable per character, so larger enemies can move slower, and characters can have items and accessories that increase speed.
  • Other than moving, a character can attack, use a special attack, or use an item.
  • When a character attacks, hitting the attack button repeatedly will put them into a combo. The speed of the combo should depending on the size and weight of the weapon. Obviously, someone with their fists or a small or light weapon will hit more times per second then someone with a very large and powerful weapon.
  • To hit, a character's sprite much make contact with another character's sprite. This should not be any part of the sprite, as that obviously undermines the idea of 2 1/2 space. I suggest this be measured by the feet of the attacker and defender being with a certain pixel range of each other, in above or below.
  • Support should be given for melee and ranged attacks. Characters with ranged attacks should also be able to attack with melee if close enough to a target.
  • Range attacks should be weaker if they are too close or too far. A 'sweetspot' range should exist in which the attack does the most damage.
  • Each successful hit gives about .1 to .2 of a second to Active Time.
  • Special Attacks only cost time, with each attack costing a number of seconds to perform, rounded to the nearest tenth. Using a special attack should trigger an animation for that attack.
  • Special attacks should include healing powers.
  • The special attack needs to hit the target to do damage. This is the same feet of attacker and defender range as before. If the attack doesn't hit, nothing happens. Special attacks should be able to damage anything on the field that it hits, even if it's not the initial or intended target. The 'damage path' of a special attack should be definable either in the skill's animation.
  • There should be up to four definable hotkeys for special attacks. The number of hotkeys should be changeable during the game by the designer, or by the player if the designer enables it such.
  • With every normal hit landed by an all, the ally party gains an 'echo' (what it is called in the game is defined by the designer). The number of hits needed to gain an echo should be defined in the script, so that the designer can change it.
  • All 'echoes' are used when any ally uses a special attack. The more Echoes, the more powerful that special attack. The designer should be able to switch on, or off, during gameplay, that special attacks build echoes.
  • At the two highest level of echoes (in Eternal Sonata, it was 24 an 32), the camera zooms in on the ally and they give a short line before going into the attack. These two super special attacks should be even more powerful than normal.
  • If the designer has 'Harmony Chains' turned on, during the height of a super special attack, the word Harmony Chain (word defined by designer or artist) will flash on the screen. If the player presses the hotkey for another special attack at that moment, then that special attack will go off (without the zooming in speech) at the strength of the number of echoes for the first special attack. The designer should eb able to chagne, during gameplay, if 2, 3, or 4 special attacks can be chained.
  • When an attack is incoming on an ally, the ally has a 'Chance' to defend. The graphic 'Chance' will float above the ally's head for that short time. If the player presses the 'Defend' key within that short time period (defined by the enemy's attack), then the damage for him and anyone else caught in the enemy's attack's Area of Effect takes 1/10 damage.
  • There should be a 25% chance for any attack on an ally that the word 'Z-Chance' will float instead, signaling that this attack can be be countered. The time period to react to a 'Z-Chance' should be 35% longer than a 'Chance'. A 'Z-Chance' can be responded to with the 'Defend' key. but if the player hits the 'Counter' key, the attack does 0 damage and the ally gets 2 seconds of Active Time to counterattack, which is strictly normal attacks. The designer should be able to modify that time in the script.
  • The designer should be able change, during gampelay, whether or not special attacks can be used in counterattacks. Items cannot be used during counterattacks.
  • An ally with their back to the attacking enemy cannot Defend or Counter. No Chance or Z-Chance will show up. They will take full damage.
  • Items are placed into Item Set outside of combat. That item set is rotated via two hotkeys during any time in the battle, even when the enemy is attacking.
  • On an ally's turn, an item can be used through the Item hot-key. It should take about 2 seconds to use an item.
  • An ally can use a healing or support item on another ally by facing them and being close by. Likewise, an ally can use a harming item on an eney by facing them and being close by.
  • If an ally is more hurt than the ally he is facing, he will use the healing item on himself.
  • Enemies follow a similar convention in that their normal attacks can hit anyone whom is in range, and their special attacks can hit whomever the animation hits. Enemies cannot use Items, Defend, Counter, Echoes or Harmony Chains. They don't get the benefit of Tactical Time and their Active Time never pauses.

That should be it. I know it is quite a bit and I apologize for the verbosity, but you did ask for details. Is this still doable?

Please, help me, brothers!!!

Smells like a Bot. A really illiterate Bot.

HI!!

author=TooManyToasters link=topic=3648.msg73224#msg73224 date=1241312449
They say that when you murder someone...

Oblivion DB FTW!

EDIT: And welcome to RNM, The Brotherhood! ;)

Redd's Event Workshop

I wasn't thinking the User Interface so much (like the facial pics, etc) as the functionality, moving around, attacking from the back doing more damage, special attacks, echoes, harmony chains, etc.

If you want, I can write up a feature list. Trust me, I am not looking for the pretty shiny pics that they use for life bars, etc, just something that works.

Anyway, please let me know. Thanks for you current script and tutorial!

Most Memorable RM Characters [May include SPOILERS!!!]

author=Max McGee link=topic=3590.msg72984#msg72984 date=1241110791
Bizarrely, that is the second time that Det. Wilks who I thought of as a throwaway stock character has been mentioned as being memorable.

Once again, I am bewildered. Tom himself is MUCH more memorable and interesting.

If I ever get the gumption, motivation, or drive to actually review Backstage, Max, you'll see my thoughts on Tom as a character.

Nope, Det. Wilks is by far the most interesting character (for me) in that game. I was pleased as gooseberry pie to be able to control him for a short while, even if leading him to his (well deserved) death.

Swine Flu

I live in Houston, ya know the city where that Toddler died.

I have asthma and am susceptible to the influenza virus.

Needless to say, I am getting a little more than nervous.