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Palette Swaps: A discussion.
LockeZ in another thread talked about how the game can punish you for using the same tactics on basically the same enemy:
Unrelated to the above, unless you have a truly enormous amount of enemies (like in Earthbound), it does seem strange to not have a few palette swaps here and there. If we're assuming the monsters are actually part of the world then they should also have relative species with similar traits, appearances, and behaviors. Which is totally how you can rationalize using palette swaps (y)
In one of the earlier Final Fantasy games, I think FF5, there's a bomb-type enemy early on that is weak to ice magic. Later, there's another identical-looking palette swap with a very similar name, which counterattacks by self-destructing and killing you when it's hit with ice magic. WTF. Thanks for teaching me something and then killing me for remembering it later, assholes.
Unrelated to the above, unless you have a truly enormous amount of enemies (like in Earthbound), it does seem strange to not have a few palette swaps here and there. If we're assuming the monsters are actually part of the world then they should also have relative species with similar traits, appearances, and behaviors. Which is totally how you can rationalize using palette swaps (y)
Lying to and deceiving the player
You're right, this is basically just a type of plot twist >_<
I'm not interested in how to *make* them either since, well, that's writing.
Then how about ways to involve the player in the plot twist? It's simple to write one and have it play out linearly in a game, but what's interesting to me (and what I'd like to try) is providing the player options to circumvent the plot twist if they're able to sense it ahead of time. Typically I think this would work most in darker/heavier games, unless it's also done humorously.
I'm pretty sure all of you have played a game where you facepalm because the MC walks into a really obvious trap and there's nothing you can do about it. Since games are interactive, though, why shouldn't you be able to do something?
So the point of the lying and deceiving having the significance I tried to talk about is based on the assumption that the player has the ability to trump you if they're observant and dedicated enough to walk away from the solutions they're spoonfed.
The dumbest way to do that is by saying something like "You can't climb the big tree in the middle of the forest!", after which every player will immediately attempt (and hopefully succeed) in climbing the tree.
Basically, this is about branching storylines that are purposefully hidden and to be uncovered by players who seek out other solutions, and the only hints to these branches are... subtle, at least so that a player breezing through the game wouldn't notice them at all.
If you know more games where characters outright lie to you about what you can/cannot do, I'd really love to know about them, as well as if you thought it was cool, annoying, boring, etc.
Sorry that I didn't know what I wanted to ask before... orz
I'm not interested in how to *make* them either since, well, that's writing.
Then how about ways to involve the player in the plot twist? It's simple to write one and have it play out linearly in a game, but what's interesting to me (and what I'd like to try) is providing the player options to circumvent the plot twist if they're able to sense it ahead of time. Typically I think this would work most in darker/heavier games, unless it's also done humorously.
I'm pretty sure all of you have played a game where you facepalm because the MC walks into a really obvious trap and there's nothing you can do about it. Since games are interactive, though, why shouldn't you be able to do something?
So the point of the lying and deceiving having the significance I tried to talk about is based on the assumption that the player has the ability to trump you if they're observant and dedicated enough to walk away from the solutions they're spoonfed.
The dumbest way to do that is by saying something like "You can't climb the big tree in the middle of the forest!", after which every player will immediately attempt (and hopefully succeed) in climbing the tree.
Basically, this is about branching storylines that are purposefully hidden and to be uncovered by players who seek out other solutions, and the only hints to these branches are... subtle, at least so that a player breezing through the game wouldn't notice them at all.
If you know more games where characters outright lie to you about what you can/cannot do, I'd really love to know about them, as well as if you thought it was cool, annoying, boring, etc.
Sorry that I didn't know what I wanted to ask before... orz
Lying to and deceiving the player
Oh, damn, the Silent Hill games! Why didn't I think of that?
I loved the story of 2 because of that messed up psychological stuff, lol. People in denial are fascinating.
Really need to play OFF sometime. I hear it's amazing.
I loved the story of 2 because of that messed up psychological stuff, lol. People in denial are fascinating.
Really need to play OFF sometime. I hear it's amazing.
Lying to and deceiving the player
Thanks for all the insight so far!
I'd be annoyed as hell by the examples Locke posted, too. If it's just about being random or inconveniencing the player then I agree that it's bad game design. I did mean deception in the narrative/story of the game, and not the gameplay/technical aspects, to be clearer.
Gourd, thanks for mentioning some games to check out! I think you really nailed it with this:
Context really is important so the players aren't floundering. I'll keep this in mind.
Soulkeeper, glad you brought up the unreliable narrator. I also read recently that they could be "frustrating for the reader" which is actually exactly why I brought up this topic, since "deceiving the player" is very similar. Locke and Feldshlacht brought up exactly how it can be frustrating in games, so that's good reference.
And I agree, Corfaisus -- moral ambiguity is definitely interesting.
I'd be annoyed as hell by the examples Locke posted, too. If it's just about being random or inconveniencing the player then I agree that it's bad game design. I did mean deception in the narrative/story of the game, and not the gameplay/technical aspects, to be clearer.
Gourd, thanks for mentioning some games to check out! I think you really nailed it with this:
There has to be some reason to believe the game could be lying to you or just a reason to disobey.
Context really is important so the players aren't floundering. I'll keep this in mind.
Soulkeeper, glad you brought up the unreliable narrator. I also read recently that they could be "frustrating for the reader" which is actually exactly why I brought up this topic, since "deceiving the player" is very similar. Locke and Feldshlacht brought up exactly how it can be frustrating in games, so that's good reference.
And I agree, Corfaisus -- moral ambiguity is definitely interesting.
Palette Swaps: A discussion.
Palette swapping is ok, but what's really cool are minor graphical changes alongside the different colors. Extending/shrinking horns, chubby changes, pattern variations...
Social Justice Warios unite!
Lying to and deceiving the player
Most games are very clear and straightforward about the tone of the story and the nature of the characters, and so it's extremely easy to tell when people are lying to you and when you're going to be backstabbed. It's a given that the generic NPC will almost always tell the truth, and if they're not, there's always a flag for untrustworthy NPCs (shady speech habits, ugly sprite, etc.) This gives the sense that the creator of the game is doing as much as they can to "ease" the way for the player, to an extent, and let them have fun.
Deceiving the player, though, is the opposite of that. Setting false first impressions, giving incomplete and misleading information, maybe having people tell absolute lies-- except the player doesn't know that that's happening, no, they just believe everything is A-OK, the stuff that the game dev leads them to do is the right thing! Right?
A game I played recently that did this sort of thing well (where the player has to disobey the "person controlling the scene") is The Stanley Parable, but I can't think of many other games where this was done and wonder if there's a reason for that. I'm personally interested because, well, my series is dependent on this.
So what do you think about misleading and lying to your players? Is it a scummy thing to do? Is it the type of thing that can only be done well in certain circumstances? Is it cheesy and overused? Can you think of interesting ways it can be used, or ways it can be done better?
(note: to clarify, this is about the narrative and perhaps how gameplay ties into/affects the narrative, but doesn't refer to lying about game controls or the technical aspects of playing the game.)
Deceiving the player, though, is the opposite of that. Setting false first impressions, giving incomplete and misleading information, maybe having people tell absolute lies-- except the player doesn't know that that's happening, no, they just believe everything is A-OK, the stuff that the game dev leads them to do is the right thing! Right?
A game I played recently that did this sort of thing well (where the player has to disobey the "person controlling the scene") is The Stanley Parable, but I can't think of many other games where this was done and wonder if there's a reason for that. I'm personally interested because, well, my series is dependent on this.
So what do you think about misleading and lying to your players? Is it a scummy thing to do? Is it the type of thing that can only be done well in certain circumstances? Is it cheesy and overused? Can you think of interesting ways it can be used, or ways it can be done better?
(note: to clarify, this is about the narrative and perhaps how gameplay ties into/affects the narrative, but doesn't refer to lying about game controls or the technical aspects of playing the game.)
Looks like we'll be able to port our games to IOS & Android soon
author=ankylo
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/225810/RPG_Maker_heads_to_mobile_with_new_porting_abilities.phphttp://steamcommunity.com/app/220700/discussions/0/616188473144961525/?insideModal=1#c616188473156609766
Hey,
The title on this release is a bit misleading.
We are working on some mobile porting solutions (and will be selling an ios/android version of Undefeated which was made in RPG Maker VX Ace).
There's still a lot of manual work and troubleshooting involved so we are quite far away from a public release of this.
Mitchell
damn.
"I'm a douche who created multiple alt accounts to hype my shitty games"
author=Liberty
I didn't do it but I was going to edit your post with the names of various games like Hero's Realm and Pom. >.<;
You should've done it. I really liked his games Valthirian Arc and Blackmoon Prophecy.
Looks like we'll be able to port our games to IOS & Android soon
We can soon terrorize children with smartphones and have them bring RPG Maker games to school.
I can soon bring RPG Maker games to school.
Relatives who say they'll only play your game if they can get it on their phone will now have to own up.
But really, it seems nice. More accessibility and greater ease in distributing.
I can soon bring RPG Maker games to school.
Relatives who say they'll only play your game if they can get it on their phone will now have to own up.
But really, it seems nice. More accessibility and greater ease in distributing.
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