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Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
post=134585This does not only apply to fan sequels. If you tag something with Final Fantasy, people will judge it against the real series. If you tag something with Dragon Warrior, likewise. It is not specific to being a sequel.
Short as possible, ay.
This only applies if the game is trying to be a fan sequel. In the case of the spin-off -- the kind of fangame I prefer, that is not necessarily applicable. If you decided to make a . Although it would lack the credibility of a FF title, are you saying that some of the more competent designers here couldn't make something better than Final Fantasy IV or heck Final Fantasy IV: The After?
post=134585This is kind of irrelevant. Such games are not original because the creator simply didn't use an originality. Fangames are unoriginal because they are fangames. The "it might as well be original" thing comes from the fact that many of the good fangames are not closely related to source material and the "Final Fantasy" or whatever only is a label.
Er, really, I think MOST games need a push in the creativity department. The 'original' game in which the empire of Lryzaphelia created the crystals of DSDAFDS etc. hey RTP + default battle system! is not more creative than, say, 'Tetris RPG' I don't understand the 'It might as well be original!' fallacy, because what if the idea is closely related to the source material? What if you like the idea of lightsabers? What if the idea is to deconstruct a particular work?
Also, I am not talking about RPGMaker. I'm just talking about the idea of fangames in general. I don't know why RTP or RPGMaker battle systems come into play in this conversation.
post=134585I didn't say anything about adaptations being bad but I clarified them being different from fangames. I love adaptations if they are well done. Oldboy is one of my favorite films and it is adapted from a comic. I really like The Book of Three and it is adapted from a book.
Do you have an issue with adaptations, too? Adaptations are essentially 'borrowed from somewhere else'. Naoki Urasawa's 'Pluto' manga works because we see an *icon* (Astro Boy) reinterpreted in a different light. It's like saying that the Tingle spin-off is bad because it lacks Shigeru Miyamoto's personal touch or that -- heck - - most of the Final Fantasies lack 'the creator's' personal touch. In the case of the Tingle game, the developers took the key characteristics of Tingle (Rupees) and made a strange, campy adventure game out of it. HECK, Star Wars KOTOR: The Sith Lords was made more interesting than the original game with the new creator's (Chris Avellone) personal touch! To say that he should have saved the story/characters fromt that game for his original work is missing the point.
While all the above are experienced developers, if we boil the idea of fangame to what it ACTUALLY IS, then that's what they are (Well, Pluto is a fan manga)
None of the examples you listed are actually examples of fangames. Tingle is a pretty shitty character and probably the worst Zelda character. The KOTOR and Final Fantasy games are in the original canon... an official sequel is not a fangame.
post=134694Maybe for learning but typically the best things are not created by people who are in the process of learning the basics but by people who already know what they are doing.
I think fangames are a good place to learn to use the maker, and I encourage fan game making, but I wouldn't restrict myself to only making fan games. Now that I have explored, poked, and prodded around in the engine it gives me a better understanding of what I could make an original game do.
And I agree with catmitts about RTP discouraging development. I began gamedesign with Games Factory and Multimedia Fusion... and with them, I drew everything by hand, even though the art was pretty bad. However, when I found RPGMaker, I stopped doing that for a long time because of RTP and rips.
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
Okay posting. I'll keep this short as possible but I want to contribute.
I do not really like fangames. Most of them suck. However, fangames are not NECESSARILY worse but there are multiple reasons as why they usually worse. But... well... first, there have been several things in this topic I would like to categorize and clarify:
1. Adaptations. (of literature or whatnot) These are not fangames. Example: Book of Three. This is like... calling a film adaptation of a book a "fanmovie." No. It's just an adaptation. It's an attempt at interpreting direct source material.
2. Fangames. Works that take place in a pre-imagined setting, use characters from someone else's work... basically stuff like FF:Shattered Lands, FF:Endless Nova... Those CT fangames, etc. etc.
(2a. Also, a group that can be counted as a subset of fangames are parodies, but that's really an entirely different story. Cosplay Crisis falls into this category.)
3. Works inspired by other works. Pretty much EVERYTHING YOU DO FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY. Fangames included, but it's a "square is a rectangle but rectangle is not always a square" situation. True originality is not very common and people who specifically strive to create something completely different usually create garbage. That's why "tried and true" formulas of game design exist. If you make an RPG, you will have RPG elements inspired or taken from RPGs you have played (like having battles). If you make a platformer, same deal (like jumping). Hero's Realm and Dragon Fantasy fall only into this category out of the three I have listed.
Now, if you take a cross section of what really is the "fangames" category, you will pretty much get a bunch of shitty games. So let's tackle it. Why do fangames suck?
First: Fangames try to imitate source material but almost never attain the quality of the source material and players familiar with the source material will probably judge the work against it. Your FF6 fangame will not be as good as FF6.
Second: Fangames, by nature, tend to lack originality. They need an extra push in the creativity department to make them stand out, making them boring very easily. Creators also will try to emulate the "formula" of the original game and this makes the game either super predictable or even more unoriginal. For example a fangame may try to copy cities or bosses or enemies from source material. I worked on a fangame of CT once, and I tried to copy a ton of things directly from CT: maps, locations, plot elements, characters, monsters, etc. Basically I put in a lot of work towards something that would've been much better being original, than spending time making sure my work was accurate to the source.
Third: Most of them are made by newbies or those less experienced. It's true. Most of the more experienced developers I've seen use their skills and efforts in creating their own personal original works.
Fourth: I honestly never enjoy a fangame as much as I enjoy something original. This also falls in with the idea of "judging it against source material."
My biggest issue with fangames? They are "tainted" -- fangames lose the personal touch of a creator upon his work. It's not really his work, it's borrowed from somewhere else. It's not really his own expression of creativity and passion but rather an attempt to follow someone else. It's like... being Luigi to someone's Mario. And then, most of the time when fangames do escape this "taint," they are original to the point where the only reason they are a fangame is because the author decided to title it as such.
to reiterate: fangames suck
I do not really like fangames. Most of them suck. However, fangames are not NECESSARILY worse but there are multiple reasons as why they usually worse. But... well... first, there have been several things in this topic I would like to categorize and clarify:
1. Adaptations. (of literature or whatnot) These are not fangames. Example: Book of Three. This is like... calling a film adaptation of a book a "fanmovie." No. It's just an adaptation. It's an attempt at interpreting direct source material.
2. Fangames. Works that take place in a pre-imagined setting, use characters from someone else's work... basically stuff like FF:Shattered Lands, FF:Endless Nova... Those CT fangames, etc. etc.
(2a. Also, a group that can be counted as a subset of fangames are parodies, but that's really an entirely different story. Cosplay Crisis falls into this category.)
3. Works inspired by other works. Pretty much EVERYTHING YOU DO FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY. Fangames included, but it's a "square is a rectangle but rectangle is not always a square" situation. True originality is not very common and people who specifically strive to create something completely different usually create garbage. That's why "tried and true" formulas of game design exist. If you make an RPG, you will have RPG elements inspired or taken from RPGs you have played (like having battles). If you make a platformer, same deal (like jumping). Hero's Realm and Dragon Fantasy fall only into this category out of the three I have listed.
Now, if you take a cross section of what really is the "fangames" category, you will pretty much get a bunch of shitty games. So let's tackle it. Why do fangames suck?
First: Fangames try to imitate source material but almost never attain the quality of the source material and players familiar with the source material will probably judge the work against it. Your FF6 fangame will not be as good as FF6.
Second: Fangames, by nature, tend to lack originality. They need an extra push in the creativity department to make them stand out, making them boring very easily. Creators also will try to emulate the "formula" of the original game and this makes the game either super predictable or even more unoriginal. For example a fangame may try to copy cities or bosses or enemies from source material. I worked on a fangame of CT once, and I tried to copy a ton of things directly from CT: maps, locations, plot elements, characters, monsters, etc. Basically I put in a lot of work towards something that would've been much better being original, than spending time making sure my work was accurate to the source.
Third: Most of them are made by newbies or those less experienced. It's true. Most of the more experienced developers I've seen use their skills and efforts in creating their own personal original works.
Fourth: I honestly never enjoy a fangame as much as I enjoy something original. This also falls in with the idea of "judging it against source material."
My biggest issue with fangames? They are "tainted" -- fangames lose the personal touch of a creator upon his work. It's not really his work, it's borrowed from somewhere else. It's not really his own expression of creativity and passion but rather an attempt to follow someone else. It's like... being Luigi to someone's Mario. And then, most of the time when fangames do escape this "taint," they are original to the point where the only reason they are a fangame is because the author decided to title it as such.
to reiterate: fangames suck
An introduction, to the place i was residing in before.
I remember you.
http://rpgmaker.net/users/KxWarrior/
http://rpgmaker.net/users/KxWarrior/
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
post=134329
I was actually looking forward to what you had to say, Azn.
I will give my input later but I am having a busy time right now as I have to decide within about a week where I am going for college!
**Important INFO inside**
post your picture
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
I disagree with a bunch of the things said in this topic but I can't be bothered to write a long post right now!
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