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Placebo Love
A lonely office worker is guided by a silent Muse to solve the mystery behind his two Doppelganger Soulmates.
A lonely office worker is guided by a silent Muse to solve the mystery behind his two Doppelganger Soulmates.
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Last Word (IGMC Version)
author=Hasvers
... I feel that somehow tying the two phases together a bit more would help with most criticisms so far. I'm not sure of the best way of doing this, though.
They could definitely be tied together better. The issue I seem to be coming across is more like a marketing one, or an expectation one. The game is about discourse, but unlike most games that try to tackle what's being said, this game is all about how it's said.
So if you come in thinking you're going to enjoy a well-crafted argument, you'll be surprised to find out that these people are all of the mindset that you are essentially repeating yourself over and over until one of you says "After you..." better than the other person. That's the entire premise; before each discourse you are shown what is being said, and then you each say "After you...", "No, after you...", in aggressive or subtle ways, or using polite smiles and precise inflections, until someone concedes. Because this universe doesn't care about any words that are said before the Last Word.
Unlike Exeunt Omnes and Goblin Noir that each have awesome conversations crafted in the what sense, Last Word dwells consistently on the how. If each discourse were hand-crafted to display exactly what was being said, you'd find out that the conversation looks exactly like the speech bubbles frequently shown over McCall and Boasting. (And those bubbles come up early and often to express the real point of the game--a tug of war between assertion and expression rather than content.)
But you still need a what to discourse about, and that's what the Key Topic System does. You search around to find the exact what, and then you talk about it over and over in a system of how.
I'm not going to pretend it's a perfect system by any means, but I think it accomplishes the theme of the game pretty well. Changing it is beneficial, especially with the critique, but in the case of Kylaila, I think she's perfectly fine in wanting a game more linguistically crafted like (the wonderful) Exeunt Omnes. Last Word doesn't scratch that same itch, and I can see how people are coming here looking for one thing and getting the other.
Which is great for a discussion between us in design, Hasvers, because when you think about how different our games are in approach, it's pretty cool. Your system of discussion starts with the last word, and you use the same basic tones to logically appeal to the opponent's different pathos, logos, or ethos. Last Word takes the stance of pompous society's insistence that whomever speaks last, speaks best, and each conversation is fueled by a fundamental mindset rather than a logical one. It's like we've taken the same topic and approached it from its antipodes.
author=Kylaila
Finally gave this a go. I am somewhat underwhelmed. Mainly thanks to my dislike for formal parties and pointless talking. Pointlessness in general. The premise that discussion is all about winning and that winning alone makes the discussion is definitely putting me off.
The system is quite nice, but it feels more like rock paper scissors right now than anything else. I'll hopefully learn some more about the characters to keep me interested. Unlocking new secrets seems more like trial and error, but that might just seem like it right now.
Nevertheless, some nice ideas are there, so I will keep at it. Just not right now, I'm not in the right state of mind for this.
Thanks for giving it a shot anyhow! I read your review on Exeunt Omnes and was like, "Oh no, she loves this game and it's nothing like mine." XD But that's cool, and hopefully you get some enjoyment out of Last Word in one way or another. :)
Last Word (IGMC Version)
Glad you enjoyed it, Mngwa! No need to write a review if you don't want to, but reviews are nice because I can take the positive and negative feedback and use it to make a better version of the game (such as making it longer).
Thanks for taking the time to download and play it!
And thanks for the extra support, Nhubi. :)
Thanks for taking the time to download and play it!
And thanks for the extra support, Nhubi. :)
Goblin Noir: Cement Shoes are Highly Unfashionable
screenie2.png
I totally dig the corrections as well. But what if the linguistic ignorance is part of the character? She doesn't exactly seem to be confident in her Spanish and German this picture. XD
The Merchant's Tale
Discourse-themed games (vol 1)
I also recommend adding Goblin Noir: Cement Shoes are Highly Unfashionable. It uses dialogue battling, and has a lot of character. Another great entry idea to come from the contest.
Last Word (IGMC Version)
author=arghAlso, I'm kind of curious why a one-way intercom is such a difficult invention. Surely a two-way intercom would be the one that requires additional work? I guess you could just say that things work differently in that universe.
I was mulling over it and thought that the resolution with Chatters was a bit lacking. I felt like what Whitty did (basically ruining his life) was disproportionate retribution. It was dickish of him to mindcontrol his guests, sure, but he wasn't just doing it for the lulz, there was a specific purpose he had to accomplish to ensure his own safety. It's likely he would use the Last Word for offensive as well as defensive purposes, and such a weapon is too dangerous in anyone's hands, but Whitty doesn't really discuss that, she's just like "Nope screw you I'm outta here." And it's rather self-serving of her to deny him the Last Word on the basis that it's too dangerous but keep it herself. I liked that you made Chatters more complex than a typical strawman mad scientist, but it feels like the plot treated him as if he was that shallow archetype anyway.
The whole final scene is a bit weaker than I would have liked, to be honest. I'm going to use that time crunch as my bulletproof shield here, but even with that excuse I can say that I agree with you. There should have and could have been more going on dynamically in the end sequence than Fight Final Boss-->Win The Day-->Credits.
It's also fair to note that unlike your average hero, Whitty isn't exactly on the side of "good." She's never made it appear like she has justice motives, and she was even raised in the same house as Chatters, so any self-serving motivation the two seemed to share isn't that unlikely. She's pragmatic, efficient, and no-nonsense, and the fact is that when she was given the chance to take power, she took it. If there's a "good" person, it's the weak and tame Master Saymore who simply wants to help bring his house back into good standing.
The nature of The Mouth gets touched on I think once by Seymour, seeing as how he's the only one desperately trying to make sense of things. He says that a mouth and hands are both "communication" parts, and The Mouth has no "receptive" parts, like eyes or ears. These bits built into the intercom are what makes The Mouth effective. (The top hat is because of the lulz.) The goal is to convince people that you're having a conversation with them, then make them realize they can't get the last word. In a world where the "magic" of this idea and the psychology of it rub against each other pretty hard, it's only slightly far-fetched to consider that if someone heard the voice from a regular one-way intercom they could just ignore it without engaging it in discourse. But to be convinced that the intercom is worth having discourse with only to be rendered helpless by its one-way nature is the admittedly silly, yet game-defining difference. XD
When making the premise, I tried to consider those aspects. Like, what if you write a letter? Or shout from a mountain? And the end idea is that it's just not going to work without being engaged in discourse. The Mouth can somehow accomplish that whereas a simple megaphone might not.
It's also fair to note that unlike your average hero, Whitty isn't exactly on the side of "good." She's never made it appear like she has justice motives, and she was even raised in the same house as Chatters, so any self-serving motivation the two seemed to share isn't that unlikely. She's pragmatic, efficient, and no-nonsense, and the fact is that when she was given the chance to take power, she took it. If there's a "good" person, it's the weak and tame Master Saymore who simply wants to help bring his house back into good standing.
The nature of The Mouth gets touched on I think once by Seymour, seeing as how he's the only one desperately trying to make sense of things. He says that a mouth and hands are both "communication" parts, and The Mouth has no "receptive" parts, like eyes or ears. These bits built into the intercom are what makes The Mouth effective. (The top hat is because of the lulz.) The goal is to convince people that you're having a conversation with them, then make them realize they can't get the last word. In a world where the "magic" of this idea and the psychology of it rub against each other pretty hard, it's only slightly far-fetched to consider that if someone heard the voice from a regular one-way intercom they could just ignore it without engaging it in discourse. But to be convinced that the intercom is worth having discourse with only to be rendered helpless by its one-way nature is the admittedly silly, yet game-defining difference. XD
When making the premise, I tried to consider those aspects. Like, what if you write a letter? Or shout from a mountain? And the end idea is that it's just not going to work without being engaged in discourse. The Mouth can somehow accomplish that whereas a simple megaphone might not.
Last Word (IGMC Version) Review
Actually, speaking of channel excursions and "other games" simultaneously, I was contemplating making a sort of indirect sequel to Last Word starring a different person about five years later on a luxury cruise-liner. XD
I kind of like the world of it, and I've been tossing around an "upgraded" idea of the Discourse system that uses body language as well. But that's, like, incredibly early right now.
Just like how any expansions on Exeunt Omnes is made easier because you worked hard on the foundation already, I've also got a set of resources and style pre-made with Last Word that would let me tell another fun story with a bit more time to make it better.
And as I read your comment, I was listening to a quick-y review of Profit Motive in another tab. I'm already way interested. Some of the dynamics seem right up my alley. Design-wise, I like things that have depth but have simple decisions that seem relatively similar in function at first. Not sure if Profit Motive is like that, but I can see from the few battle descriptions and video bits why it and Last Word's Discourse come off as similar, no doubt.
All of these new chatty game possibilities have gotten me pretty excited!
I kind of like the world of it, and I've been tossing around an "upgraded" idea of the Discourse system that uses body language as well. But that's, like, incredibly early right now.
Just like how any expansions on Exeunt Omnes is made easier because you worked hard on the foundation already, I've also got a set of resources and style pre-made with Last Word that would let me tell another fun story with a bit more time to make it better.
And as I read your comment, I was listening to a quick-y review of Profit Motive in another tab. I'm already way interested. Some of the dynamics seem right up my alley. Design-wise, I like things that have depth but have simple decisions that seem relatively similar in function at first. Not sure if Profit Motive is like that, but I can see from the few battle descriptions and video bits why it and Last Word's Discourse come off as similar, no doubt.
All of these new chatty game possibilities have gotten me pretty excited!
Exeunt Omnes
Your interest/knowledge of other "rhetoric" games clued me in that you weren't just casually playing games and happened to fancy bow ties and top hats. But also, I don't think I would have started downloading if you had overtly advertised your own creation.
Although, being that we have similar interests (seemingly) in this aspect of gaming I bet it was a bit hard not to have a completely non-egotistical "... What I did in my game was..." bit of commentary. XD I know I would have struggled a little to refrain from speaking about design experiences.
In any case, it just downloaded and I'm ready to shatter the dreams of young teen heroines!
Although, being that we have similar interests (seemingly) in this aspect of gaming I bet it was a bit hard not to have a completely non-egotistical "... What I did in my game was..." bit of commentary. XD I know I would have struggled a little to refrain from speaking about design experiences.
In any case, it just downloaded and I'm ready to shatter the dreams of young teen heroines!
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