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2011 RMN Summer Games
author=kentona
You see, when a male and a female engage in coitus, it sometimes happens that the male will ejaculate prematurely, leaving the female unable to achieve orgasm. This event calls into question the male's virility and masculinity, and oft times leads to embarrassment of the male and dissatisfaction for the female. Hence, one should not be proud of *ahem* "finishing prematurely".
Shit. I thought it was a race all this time.
London Riots
author=Fallen-Griever
The amount of aid given from the government ranges from the government paying all of your tuition fee to the government paying none of it. Tuition fee payments from the government are non-repayable.
This would have been nice of you to tell me several days ago. Now I can finally tell you why your system is broken and doomed to fail.
The universities charge whatever the hell the government will let them get away with. If there's any competition with each other, one uni may bias it's price back by 5% or 10%, but for the most part the tuition rates are in the stratosphere.
Politicians really don't care about government spending habits. If the budget is an issue, as it is now, they legislate some budgetary discretion committee into existence which is more easy to lobby in secret than themselves. Meaningful cuts are hard to come by.
As your public universities drive tuition higher and higher, and the government refuses to stand it's ground, it has two choices : raise taxes or borrow money. One has a direct, next-day effect. Politicians don't like that. The other takes the form of inflation and doesn't work it's way into the system for ~1.5 years. Hopefully by then, people have forgotten who voted for what.
Another thing to note about borrowing is that eventually taxes will have to be raised to pay the debt.
You've probably noticed already but taxes come as a percentage of what you do. Members of society can only bear so much % before they can't pay, the nation is forced to default, and the system breaks down. What happens after that? Why don't you ask a resident from a 3rd world nation?
Stepping back, while the universities were continually raising tuition rates, board members were riding in limos during the week and ferraris on the weekends. If the government were ever to take a stand against tuition rises, the board members would cry and moan about how they would have to cut your enzyme-research lab or lay off professors. Cuts to the entrenched bureaucracy? Never going to happen.
Am I saying that universities are single-handedly going to bankrupt the United Kingdom? Of course not. Don't be silly. I'm saying your system of post-secondary education, along with all the other public-subsidized-at-a-loss programs, has a limited lifespan. Socialism always does. Eventually the free lunch receivers will outnumber the free lunch providers. Just ask the USSR.
If your parliament seized control of the Bank of England, you could extend the system's life by a couple hundred years. But David Cameron is a wimpy tall child, and your system is breaking down right now. Tough shit.
author=Fallen-Griever
This means that families are going to have to find more money to pay towards tuition than they thought they'd have to in the past. Parents who have been saving for their children's university tuition have suddenly found that their savings might not be adequate.
Don't look down. There's a bullet hole in your foot.
After all the hooplah regarding how public-subsidized education is good for the poor and unprivileged, now all the poor and unprivileged are being driven out of post-secondary because of financial shortcomings :D
author=Fallen-Griever
instead of focusing on college sports. Eugh...
Nothing wrong with a little competitive tribalism :) The nation-state is maintained by our sense of belonging to a whole.
author=chana
What I meant to stress is that : in democracies, the government is not a corporation, does not work like a corporation, is not meant to work like a corporation, wether it does this more or less well, or more or less fairly, and according to each country was not my point.
We've been inundated with business corporations for so long that few people know what a corporation actually is. You should check "Corporation" in Wikipedia. Without the nation and it's government, there is no corporation.
But to the point you were getting at, why shouldn't the government run itself like a business? Yes, the national government is there to provide a higher standard of living to the citizens. That's the whole point of it. But it can't do that if it keeps accruing debt and running deficits year after year. Eventually it'll be over-indebted like you or I can become, and it'll fail and drag the citizenry down with it.
London Riots
author=Fallen-Griever
It's like I'm arguing with a version of myself that was dropped on his head too many times as a child. The stubborness is retained, but the reading comprehension isn't :(
Illustrious and Creation summed up my thoughts.
Unless your intention is to drag me into a puking up frothing vitriolic sarcastic spittle rage, at which point you can claim intellectual superiority and walk away. Seen that done before.
author=Fallen-Griever
- Lower income families get massive help with fees from the government (some get the whole of the fee paid for them, like I did.)
And what I've been arguing this whole time is that it's the "massive help with fees from the government" that causes tuition rates to rise.
author=Fallen-Griever
- Lower income families get grants that don't need to be paid back to help with living expenses
You keep telling me the What, while leaving out the How.
As a result, my Why isn't answered. Why is everybody in the UK so uppity about skyrocketing tuition rates? After all, they don't have to pay them. Right?
author=Fallen-Griever
- Importantly, intelligence is valued more than the ability to throw an american football really, really far. Herpaderp.
heh.
In America, college/uni football is so popular (and for good reason) that having a good team has the same intangible benefits as having productive R&D facilities. Snubbing their business decision is nothing but pseudo-intellectual snobbery.
author=Fallen-Griever
Meh, like I said, the government helping people must seem strange in a country with such a terrible healthcare system
I'm actually a Canadian (just added a profile last night after realizing it's been empty for so long :x). Our health care system is one of the least busted in the world. Still doomed to collapse, but further away from there than most other countries'.
author=Fallen-Griever
If your roads are public, why do you pay toll on bridges? D:
Whose paying tolls on bridges? :o
Most often, toll roads are products of the private sector. Control of major traffic arteries is something the private sector shouldn't have. Sideroads (and maybe the occasional bridge), by all means.
author=chana
(the rich pay high taxes, the poor low, it's all put together so, for example every child can go to school.
FYI, this is actually wrong.
I could write an essay on the Income Tax, but for our purposes we all know that in most western countries, your tax rate increases as you make more money. This is a system of penalizing you for making more as a skilled professional and mostly affects doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc. It actually makes those trades not worth getting into, creating an artificial shortage (well, maybe not nurses).
Businessmen, the real millionaires and billionaires, pay far less tax via loopholes and operating their companies on a cash-flow basis. If the income matches the expenses, you pay no tax on it. All you have to do is book everything you do as an expense.
For the real billionaires, you can keep your money offshore and repatriate it temporarily at no tax disadvantage. This is thanks to globalism and free trade.
The TL;DR - The rich don't pay taxes. That's one of the problems behind all the US downgrade and Eurozone woes you hear about in the news. Only one of the problems, I need to stress.
author=chana
Does this answer some of your questions ?
Nope. My next post will explain why. I need to draw a picture.
Digsite.jpg
London Riots
author=kentona
"if your national parks are "public", why are you paying a fee to enter?"
For the purpose of the topic at hand, there's no comparison.
If the national park charged exhorbitant sums for entry, someone would buy a ton of undeveloped wilderness and charge a much smaller admission fee for his park. Also, a national park is not an essential service. If you want to be an astrophysicist or a mechanical engineer, you need to attend university.
Ironically, things like national parks are examples of good government.
But your point is taken. I need to change my wording so people can grasp what I mean.
How about : If your universities are "public", why are you taking out a huge loan and going into debt just to gain entry?
Opening Scene.jpg
London Riots
F-G, I have an idea.
Instead of you telling me how it is, me explaining why it's flawed and destined for failure, then you expanding on how it is by saying "that isn't how it really is, it's something different" while getting angry and offensive, how about you just tell me how the system works in one broad swoop, and I'll tell you, in one broad swoop, why it's flawed, destined to fail, and IS failing.
Seriously. We can end this very soon.
The Right to an Education, a thorough and resounding "Yes". Having uneducated people in the society is a detriment to that society.
Let me quote one of my previous posts to properly reply.
"There's nothing wrong with public education. It's more of a social obligation than a competitive enterprise. What's wrong is using public funds to subsidize private education. You may notice that through grades 1-12, you have the option of free public education or expensive private. But for post-secondary, you only have expensive private with the public purse unconditionally backstopping whatever they charge."
I'll ask again, although some of you just don't get it. If your universities are "public", why are you paying tuition?
Max gave me his answer...
But you aren't paying it :|
Read where I said "I just had a thought. If your universities are government-owned, and your student loan system is government-owned, then the government actually loans money to itself and you get saddled with the debt for whatever it charged itself."
Don't make me draw a picture.
Instead of you telling me how it is, me explaining why it's flawed and destined for failure, then you expanding on how it is by saying "that isn't how it really is, it's something different" while getting angry and offensive, how about you just tell me how the system works in one broad swoop, and I'll tell you, in one broad swoop, why it's flawed, destined to fail, and IS failing.
Seriously. We can end this very soon.
author=kentona
Government owns school. You would like to attend school. Government essentially offers payment plan for you to attend said school.
The Right to an Education, a thorough and resounding "Yes". Having uneducated people in the society is a detriment to that society.
Let me quote one of my previous posts to properly reply.
"There's nothing wrong with public education. It's more of a social obligation than a competitive enterprise. What's wrong is using public funds to subsidize private education. You may notice that through grades 1-12, you have the option of free public education or expensive private. But for post-secondary, you only have expensive private with the public purse unconditionally backstopping whatever they charge."
I'll ask again, although some of you just don't get it. If your universities are "public", why are you paying tuition?
Max gave me his answer...
author=Max McGee
To cover the costs of operating the institution? Like paying teachers, maintaining buildings, and so forth?
But you aren't paying it :|
Read where I said "I just had a thought. If your universities are government-owned, and your student loan system is government-owned, then the government actually loans money to itself and you get saddled with the debt for whatever it charged itself."
Don't make me draw a picture.
London Riots
I guess you didn't catch on to the "Fucked-Upedness" part. Hopefully somebody will. I don't want to be the only one who can see A, B, and C, then deduce D.
This comment is both ignorant and mean :(
That's like telling someone to invest in "stocks" or a nice place to live is "Europe". Everything on earth can be boiled down to case-by-case.
The trick for "academic research" is : What are you researching? Astrophysics and/or bacteriology, or pigs' orgasms?
If something is publically funded, it's given a blank cheque. If the lab can't find a private sector partner to provide additional financing and direction*, they'll have to make up stupid projects in order to justify not being downsized. During rough economic times, like now, partners may be hard to come by. FG may have his enzyme project, but the lab two blocks away may be forced to study ice cubes just to avoid cutbacks.
*By direction, I mean "Research this, please."
author=kentona
Or that you fail to see the value in academic research?
This comment is both ignorant and mean :(
That's like telling someone to invest in "stocks" or a nice place to live is "Europe". Everything on earth can be boiled down to case-by-case.
The trick for "academic research" is : What are you researching? Astrophysics and/or bacteriology, or pigs' orgasms?
If something is publically funded, it's given a blank cheque. If the lab can't find a private sector partner to provide additional financing and direction*, they'll have to make up stupid projects in order to justify not being downsized. During rough economic times, like now, partners may be hard to come by. FG may have his enzyme project, but the lab two blocks away may be forced to study ice cubes just to avoid cutbacks.
*By direction, I mean "Research this, please."
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