GAME PET PEEVES

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Diablo 2 isn't an RPG now?

I'm going to go stare at the sunset for a good 10 minutes.
I have to admit I've never seen the fervent demand for difficulty levels. Like, this conversation is literally the only time I've ever seen it brought up, ever.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
People are annoyed by some weird shit.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that people were annoyed by the OPTION to skip an intro. I kind of thought OPTIONS were never bad because they're, well, options.
post=138939
I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that people were annoyed by the OPTION to skip an intro. I kind of thought OPTIONS were never bad because they're, well, options.


Choice and freedom can be mismanaged poorly, though I'd rather save this point for another topic.
post=138939
I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that people were annoyed by the OPTION to skip an intro. I kind of thought OPTIONS were never bad because they're, well, options.

Perhaps they are more annoyed that there are reviewers who dislike the fact that you can't skip an intro.

On that note, intros are rarely done well.
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
MOG, do you ever frequent anywhere that isn't an RM forum?
post=138914
WolfCoder has it right: RPGs, by their nature of a progressive game (ie- stats increase, skillsets expand, etc...), inherently have an EASY, MODERATE and HARD mode. The start is EASY, middle game MODERATE and endgame HARD. If you have to decouple the difficulty from the game then ur doin it wrong. imho.

EDIT: ha! WolfCoder just reiterated what he said.

He? Well, it's actually kind of rare that I actually play an RPG with difficulty levels in it even for these days.

That's because you live in the distant, archaic past.

The original Shining Force games had four levels of difficulty even though the game was pushover-easy on "Ouch" difficulty. Perfect example of why it's kind of pointless to even have them if it barely makes a difference anyway.

However, in the golden age of games, it was very common to see difficulty settings in non-RPG games. Especially the classic arcade games.

There are always exceptions, I'll have to add. Fire Emblem has distinct Hard, Harder, and Fuck Me modes, but the game was still fun.


But for RPGs, it just strikes me as funny. The game itself could just have parts of it that are harder than the rest (like they had been) and sometimes optional. It just feels as though a properly designed and balanced game doesn't need all these difficulty features. I can see why Kentona agrees since I've heard the heavy use of Excel in Hero's Realm.
post=138946
MOG, do you ever frequent anywhere that isn't an RM forum?

Yeah. I visit GameFaqs boards for every game I own (a lot), I'm a moderator at a board that translates Japanese materials for SE games, I chill around at Caves of Narshe and ChronoCompendium, and a few others. Not to mention that I have friends in real life that are video game fans as well. So I'm 'down with the kids' as far as what people like and dislike about games of today and yesterday. With all of that said, my statement still stands, I've never seen a demand, want, or need for difficulty levels in RPGs, ever.
I have on SA

(anecdotal evidence is fun!)
i'm just sayin

Opinions are largely shaped by our personal experiences. If I spent all my time on communities where people DID want and discuss the merits of difficulty systems, I'm sure my opinion would be at least somewhat different. But I haven't, and I'm sure that at least somewhat contributes to why I don't care about it at all. We're not arguing objective scientific hardline facts or anything here. We're talking about subjective game design.
There's a line between subjective and objectively bad/good game design (poor analogy: Shitty artists who excuse their lack of skill as 'style', see webcomics). I don't think anybody is saying that adding or lacking difficulty levels will send your game to the graces/gallows but it's presence can help any game by making it available to a larger audience and giving the game more replayability. As far as the player is concerned it is an objectively good game design decision. The problem with difficulty levels comes from the same issue with all gameplay mechanics and features: Scope creep. Everything has its essential and accidental complexity and somebody will have to take the time to implement that and that is effort that could be put to more substantial, or meaningless, pursuits. That's the most important question: Is it worth the effort to implement given the end result, the complexities, and other places to direct effort?

Fuck, what were we arguing over again?
Sure, I can dig that. However...

Scope creep. Everything has its essential and accidental complexity and somebody will have to take the time to implement that and that is effort that could be put to more substantial, or meaningless, pursuits. That's the most important question: Is it worth the effort to implement given the end result, the complexities, and other places to direct effort?

...Basically this. For me, right now, the answer is, well...no. I guess I'll just take the blow. When my projects get one 1 out of 5 reviews from players saying 'MAN I WISH THIS GAME WOULD HAVE DIFFICULTY LEVELS IT DOESN'T SO IT SUCKS' I'll eat my words. For now though, I'm secure where I'm at.
There's no reason to argue over the validity over whatever you say when you never really did any scientific exploration into the subject matter. Don't worry about it Feld. This is why you give details to support what you say if you feel what you say is right and all that nonsense you learned writing English papers.

Of course when that isn't enough, you've got to bust out some science ^^ on these fools and provide harder facts to support your conclusions. Its always nice when you do this because then you start knowing you're right vs. feeling you're right. You could only be intelligibly counterattacked with more science then, yielding only actual progress... Of course anyone here who actually is studying science is typically too tired to care and thus is happy with typical internet arguing. Goes to explaining why we usually never get anything done either the more time we spend in forums~

Remember we are makers arguing, not gamers even though we play all our own games. We would argue about tons of things players might never bring up but they do feel, oh in the highest forces they indeed feel the decisions we make even if they don't realize it.
Feld: Yeah, I believe that is a completely justified reason not to add them ("more important things to do, end result won't have a significant impact on fun", 2k3 isn't helping). I just want to say that difficulty levels could have a home in RPGs.

ANYWAYS HOW ABOUT THOSE PET PEEVES

I really don't like most % healing items. Or at least the low-% ones. Especially if they're the only healing items available early on in the game. Healing 15%, 25%, or 30% HP is peanuts compared to the damage a character usually received and given that popping a healing item every time Wizard Feebleback gets hit sounds like a quick way to make a fight turn into a money hole just trying not to die. Good luck getting back to full HP!

I know some RM games do this but damned if I can remember any of them. Tales of have the 30% gummies early on and I've never liked them too much.

At least 50% healing or bust! Legend of Dragoon was nice with this: The first healing item gave 50% HP back and the second was 100% iirc. There were also group versions of both!
Hahaha, I almost always use % healing items. However, these were usually 75%/100% or other high % and you could only use them outside battle as they were medical kits. During battle I don't think it makes sense to down an entire pizza in front of your enemy like Ness can, but that's where you would have quick potions you could down and took only a short time to use.

I just think its funny that in FPS games you could be bleeding all over the place with broken limbs, walk over a health pack and just be all fine the next instant >.<
Now you can just hide behind a rock and watch your wounds magically mend themselves!
As to the %, I got around it by having say, 25% + 50 HP - so that in the early game it'd be useful, but later on it would be okay for medium damage heals. Um, thingy. (Then again I like adding 1-3% HP healing for things like Antidotes and Salves - just cos. ^.^)

Hate the slow walk/text speed (though I am guilty of text speed alterations ^.~; ) I don't mind slow walk speed so much if it's for something like a small world map (larger ones annoy me) and methinks that if you're gonna make a run button, switch it to make a 'walk' button instead. That way I'm not constantly turning it on/holding down the button. Or better yet, get rid of walk altogether and let me run all the time!

Long intros are alright if they're interesting - not just text on background. (Again, something I'm guilty of).
I like %-based healing both because HP as a stat usually needs all the help it can get, and I don't like my items getting outdated. The FF7 hack I've been working on makes Potions 25/50/75%, the standard Potion is still pretty worthless with this but hey it's better than mighty 100 HP healing.

Fun fact about FF2: The people who hit themselves for hours to raise their HP are the ones who find the endgame ungodly hard because all the relevant enemies do %-based damage !!
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
In In Praise of Peace and Diablocide I do what Liberty does: x + y% healing. Good early-game, becomes less useful as healing skills become available (and the really good ones purposefully come later than usual in an RPG).