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Keeping the plot focused
author=Shinan
pretty plot-driven game where the direction is always "forward forward forward". But if take a second to think about what you are doing and what the plot actually is you find it incredibly shallow and stupid. And most of the things you do make no sense whatsoever.
A lot of RPGs fall into that trap. I found FF7 to be an example of a game that started down that route. The story was moving in the right direction, going at a decent pace and kept doing all the right things, but every so often the characters would make a decision that just baffled me. There seemed to be little sense in going through with the plan other than just to get you into the next dungeon.
FF7 isn't terrible for it of course; point was just that doing what you can to avoid irrelevant/unrelated dungeons sometimes just winds up with you having nonsensical dungeons. Relevance or logic: gotta balance dat bitch!
Conditional event problem
You really shouldn't be using a common event for that type of process. Just have the conditional in the Skeleton's own event.
Well, I say "shouldn't". There's no specific reason against using a common event, but there's absolutely no benefit in it either. Much cleaner and easier to manage just having it within the subject event.
UNLESS you want the subject event in several different places at once; then common events will start to help out more.
Well, I say "shouldn't". There's no specific reason against using a common event, but there's absolutely no benefit in it either. Much cleaner and easier to manage just having it within the subject event.
UNLESS you want the subject event in several different places at once; then common events will start to help out more.
Keeping the plot focused
I think it just comes down to the fact that LockeZ is probably one of the people who start a game and just get right into the story and want to play it out. Such people find Distraction Cave just an annoying waste of time in between what they're really interested in, and don't often care about seeing the rest of the world they're busy trying to save.
Whereas other players are happy to put the urgent world-saving quest on hold in the name of just stopping and playing the game for the game's sake, for their own motivation, as you said: the player chooses what's important.
That's all really just personal preference though, and there's really no right or wrong answer, as few games can cater to everyone's preferences. Blonde or brunette, really.
Whereas other players are happy to put the urgent world-saving quest on hold in the name of just stopping and playing the game for the game's sake, for their own motivation, as you said: the player chooses what's important.
That's all really just personal preference though, and there's really no right or wrong answer, as few games can cater to everyone's preferences. Blonde or brunette, really.
Keeping the plot focused
I'm not going to deny that many games obviously have pointless filler content that serves no benefit on any scale; some stuff just is a waste of time and could be dropped without anyone ever caring.
The biggest difference for people, I guess, is where they personally draw the line of what no longer interests them.
I mean, Necron in FFIX just seemed like a giant space flea from nowhere in my eyes, and left me kind of "wtf?"ing; when I think about the game I basically just omit that whole section.
Yet some people see a connection between Necron's big doom-speech and the rest of the game's theme.
I agree with you though, that it's best not to make a dungeon to suit your battlers. You should always try to come up with the background/explanation first, then get the art.
The biggest difference for people, I guess, is where they personally draw the line of what no longer interests them.
I mean, Necron in FFIX just seemed like a giant space flea from nowhere in my eyes, and left me kind of "wtf?"ing; when I think about the game I basically just omit that whole section.
Yet some people see a connection between Necron's big doom-speech and the rest of the game's theme.
I agree with you though, that it's best not to make a dungeon to suit your battlers. You should always try to come up with the background/explanation first, then get the art.
Keeping the plot focused
Keeping the plot focused
I disagree about the first point. The natural default is to only focus on and think about what you're directly seeing. If you spend 20 hours chasing the Empire and doing nothing else, then your mind will automatically start to just associate that game world with the Empire and never really think about the world beyond it.
If you have other towns that have less to do with the Empire and do some questing that is just a passing-by thing, you'll start to see the world beyond just the Empire.
Another thought, of course (which may have been your point?) is that not all games benefit from giving the player a better sense of the larger world. Certain games have a tight enough storyline that making you think about the outside world would just be piling on pointless content. Other games, like Skyrim, really thrive from having a lot of side stuff that really builds the world in your mind.
Guess it just comes down to the game.
If you have other towns that have less to do with the Empire and do some questing that is just a passing-by thing, you'll start to see the world beyond just the Empire.
Another thought, of course (which may have been your point?) is that not all games benefit from giving the player a better sense of the larger world. Certain games have a tight enough storyline that making you think about the outside world would just be piling on pointless content. Other games, like Skyrim, really thrive from having a lot of side stuff that really builds the world in your mind.
Guess it just comes down to the game.
Keeping the plot focused
Tv shows like 24 and Lost have several plot threads running all at once. In a game you typically have one central plot and not much else other than side quests.
I wouldn't oppose a game that had several coinciding plot threads but you really just don't get many of them at all. It'd pretty much be restricted to games where the main character changes around every so often.
FF6 does have several characters with their own stories, but it's not on the same level as 24's multiple character arcs.
I wouldn't oppose a game that had several coinciding plot threads but you really just don't get many of them at all. It'd pretty much be restricted to games where the main character changes around every so often.
FF6 does have several characters with their own stories, but it's not on the same level as 24's multiple character arcs.
Keeping the plot focused
author=Milennin
If the game constantly shoves the main threat into your face, and then sends you onto a random, non-related side path, then yeah, it's annoying.
That's a good way to put it. Ultimately, the relevance/focus of the setting in the game isn't as important as how it's presented.
Keeping the plot focused
I'd have to agree with Craze here; as I said on the other thread, I don't think that unrelated dungeons/areas are specifically a bad thing. Call me weird, but when I go through RPGs I tend to enjoy those wee side areas. I just gives me a breather from the main story: humans do have a limited attention span after all.
A movie can be completely and utterly focussed on one thing, but the movie is only ninety minutes long and doesn't have any side-questing to kill time. You can focus on the story and remain interested throughout.
Play a 40 hour RPG and remain completely interested in the story? Not as easy. In the other thread you said you might as well just go play another game or do something else; but what if the player wants to keep playing that game...they just cbf with the huge story-driving conflict right now, and wanna screw around with their favourite character?
Either way, I think it really comes down to the game in question and its implementation. Some games have a lot of side stuff and it works, while others just feel schizophrenic because of it. Some games remain focussed entirely on their story and remain engaging, while others start to feel repetitive and exhausting. All depends.
Personally and lately, I've been more in the mood for flighty stories. My current project is somewhat RPG based but has gone down the path more of hub bassed missions.
I had the option of just randomly throwing out dungeons and saying "kill that guy" like the games predecessor, but figured it'd be more fun, more engaging to give each mission a small backstory/explanation.
They have no connection to each other and no lingering relevance (albeit I am working up "chain missions"), but (again, personally) that's part of what works for this specific implementation. It just encourages you to just play the game and jump from setting to setting without needing to worry too much about being dragged away from the central conflict; because there basically is none!
It does keep intensifying, and with character related quests I am trying to build up more of a structure for some plot thread to come through, but ultimately that's not the focussing point. Whether or not I did it successfully is another issue, but that's neither here nor there.
Now one thing I don't like is "arrived ten minutes late" syndrome: even if everything is completely relevant and engaging, that whole "ach, just missed him" vibe just winds me up and puts me off the story. I'd much rather be told that he's holed up in his castle and I need to sneak in through Distraction Cave to get him.
But that's just me.
A movie can be completely and utterly focussed on one thing, but the movie is only ninety minutes long and doesn't have any side-questing to kill time. You can focus on the story and remain interested throughout.
Play a 40 hour RPG and remain completely interested in the story? Not as easy. In the other thread you said you might as well just go play another game or do something else; but what if the player wants to keep playing that game...they just cbf with the huge story-driving conflict right now, and wanna screw around with their favourite character?
Either way, I think it really comes down to the game in question and its implementation. Some games have a lot of side stuff and it works, while others just feel schizophrenic because of it. Some games remain focussed entirely on their story and remain engaging, while others start to feel repetitive and exhausting. All depends.
Personally and lately, I've been more in the mood for flighty stories. My current project is somewhat RPG based but has gone down the path more of hub bassed missions.
I had the option of just randomly throwing out dungeons and saying "kill that guy" like the games predecessor, but figured it'd be more fun, more engaging to give each mission a small backstory/explanation.
They have no connection to each other and no lingering relevance (albeit I am working up "chain missions"), but (again, personally) that's part of what works for this specific implementation. It just encourages you to just play the game and jump from setting to setting without needing to worry too much about being dragged away from the central conflict; because there basically is none!
It does keep intensifying, and with character related quests I am trying to build up more of a structure for some plot thread to come through, but ultimately that's not the focussing point. Whether or not I did it successfully is another issue, but that's neither here nor there.
Now one thing I don't like is "arrived ten minutes late" syndrome: even if everything is completely relevant and engaging, that whole "ach, just missed him" vibe just winds me up and puts me off the story. I'd much rather be told that he's holed up in his castle and I need to sneak in through Distraction Cave to get him.
But that's just me.
Syma
After mentioning the bestiary there, I've thought about it more and decided to implement one. It's set up already and working nicely, and looks good with the current UI. It's a basic one that doesn't give item drops or anything fancy, but dos give the enemy stats and image, and is unlocked after fighting them for the first time.
Unfortunately it won't update retroactively for current save files (although the VR enemies from the tutorial will be automatically added).
This feature will be available in Episode VIII :)
Unfortunately it won't update retroactively for current save files (although the VR enemies from the tutorial will be automatically added).
This feature will be available in Episode VIII :)
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